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Replace workflowType
with represents
#217
Conversation
The data model diagram didn't survive unscathed, and needs to be re-fixed. It's technically correct but aesthetically a disaster.
The data model diagram didn't survive unscathed, and needs to be re-fixed. It's technically correct but aesthetically a disaster. Update: fixed in 6b86c50 |
Fix validation errors
Question: should we make the |
The Timed Text Working Group just discussed
The full IRC log of that discussion<nigel> Subtopic: Changing workflowType to alternativeFor<nigel> github: https://github.com//pull/217 <nigel> -> https://github.com//pull/217 Replace workflowType with alternativeFor #217 <nigel> Nigel: Related issue: <nigel> -> https://github.com//issues/169 Support within workflowType for generic script origination #169 <nigel> Nigel: The problem we had was that workflowType, being restricted to audioDescription or dubbing, <nigel> .. didn't actually work all that well for everyone in the chain. <nigel> .. For example it didn't cover things like production of a transcript and/or translation <nigel> .. with the intent of using it for subtitles. <nigel> .. So I replaced it with alternativeFor, which is a description of which components of the related media <nigel> .. the document contents represent, or are an alternative for. <nigel> .. It's a comma separated list, with four possible values in the list. <nigel> .. Those are dialogue, nonDialogueSounds, visualNonText and visualText. <nigel> .. Very few other changes were needed. <nigel> .. Two questions from me: <Cyril> RRSAgent, pointer <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2024/03/28-tt-irc#T16-19-29 <nigel> .. 1. Since nothing depends on this list, at present, should the values come from a Registry Table <nigel> .. 2. Should we keep this as a mandatory attribute, or can it be optional? <nigel> s/Table/Table? <atai> q+ <nigel> Cyril: I don't disagree with how it's done. <nigel> .. Wondering if the term "alternativeFor" is the right term. I think we had "represents" before. <nigel> .. Why this choice? <nigel> Nigel: Yes, I thought someone didn't like "represents", maybe you Cyril?! <nigel> .. Also, I wanted to tie it in with accessibility language and terminology a bit more closely, <nigel> .. so that people in that world are comfortable with what this is doing. <nigel> .. I don't mind changing it to a different name. <nigel> ack atai <nigel> Andreas: When I read the term, I was wondering what it means too - it's not intuitive. <nigel> .. If we go in this direction, "represents" as a term is more accessible. <nigel> .. Also, in the approach, I see the benefit of it, and the goal to separate the different uses more clearly. <nigel> .. But it kind of breaks with terms used in the industry like dubbing and audio description. <nigel> .. For that, they need to get their head around it. That's my first impression. <nigel> Nigel: I did add a note about typical values for those use cases but I get what you mean. <nigel> Cyril: As you indicated, "alternative" is a key word for accessibility. I need to think about it. <nigel> .. I'm not sure a transcript is really an alternative - is the transcript used to produce dubbing or AD really an alternative? <nigel> Nigel: I'm not glued to this - I've explained my reasoning, but the reasons aren't strong. <nigel> Cyril: Regarding the question about registry, I'm not sure. <nigel> .. It's good for implementation and extensibility to use a registry. <nigel> .. But the way you've structured the keywords, it feels like it covers the entire space, <nigel> .. with the union representing everything. <nigel> Nigel: Maybe, but there could be something else. <nigel> Cyril: You might want more granularity - text could be signs, time and dates etc. <nigel> .. So now I think about it, using a registry is better probably. <nigel> Nigel: OK <nigel> Cyril: The last question was about making it optional vs mandatory. <nigel> .. What is the use case where you wouldn't know what your script represents? <nigel> .. It may evolve, but at any point in time you should know what the script represents. <nigel> .. so I still think it should be mandatory. <nigel> Nigel: I'm happy to take the action to turn the content-descriptor values into a Registry Table. <nigel> .. The other possible action is renaming it to "represents" or some other thing. <nigel> Cyril: [reads the original issue] I don't think I have a problem with "represents" <nigel> Nigel: OK, any other thoughts before I give myself the action to change it? <nigel> no other comments <nigel> SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt Change `<content-descriptor>` to be a Registry Table; change name to "represents". |
Also tidy up some section ordering and some wording.
workflowType
with represents
I plan to merge this on Thursday 11th April if there are no objections, since that will be 2 weeks after I made the last significant change, to make |
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Works for me.
The Timed Text Working Group just discussed
The full IRC log of that discussion<nigel> Subtopic: Replace workflowType with represents #217<nigel> github: https://github.com//pull/217 <nigel> Matt: Apologies, I didn't notice anything coming through to me for the review request. <nigel> Nigel: This is about replacing workflowType with represents as a list of the content types that <nigel> .. the document represents. <nigel> .. Last time we talked we agreed to make the <content-descriptor> into a Registry Table, <nigel> .. and I made that change after the call. <nigel> .. We also had it as "alternativeFor" last time and had agreed to change that into "represents" which I also did. <nigel> Matt: [recalls the discussion, agrees with the intent] <nigel> Nigel: The question for me now is do I go ahead and merge now or wait for a review and <nigel> .. take appropriate response on the basis of that. <nigel> Matt: I feel I need to read it. <nigel> Cyril: I don't have any change to my pull request approval. <nigel> .. Just wondering about the granularity of the "represents", could we use represents on Script Events? <nigel> Nigel: Further down the tree? <nigel> Cyril: Yes, if you want to know which Script Events actually correspond to each type, we already have <nigel> .. Script Event Description which is human readable, and we have Script Event Type that has a Registry, <nigel> .. but the values don't align - we have dialogue, spoken text, on screen text... <nigel> Nigel: Ooh I hadn't thought of that. Looking at it, I agree, it seems like this could be one list. <nigel> Matt: I'm happy with the general approach. <nigel> Cyril: I'm thinking - if you were to replace the values of represents by the values of Script Event Type... <nigel> .. If you made a set of the Script Event Types in the document, would that work? <nigel> Nigel: I see 3 options. <nigel> .. 1. What you said Cyril, allow the event type values to be coalesced into represents at the document level. <nigel> .. 2. Add a mapping from event type into a simpler smaller set of represents values, e.g. title and OnScreenText in event type <nigel> .. both map to visualText in represents. <nigel> .. 3. Replace eventType with represents and use the same registry table for both. <nigel> .. The nuance is that represents allows a list, whereas eventType maybe should be a single value. <nigel> Cyril: Sorry I only noticed this now. Also the registry table for script event type needs some descriptions. <nigel> .. I like the idea of the column for mapping to represents. <nigel> .. I was wondering what the point of spokenText is? <nigel> Nigel: We spent no time looking at the registry table values for event type, they're just example values. <nigel> Cyril: I agree those are the three options, I don't have a strong view. <nigel> .. You may not want the same granularity of description at the document level as at the script event type. <nigel> Nigel: That's why I was thinking of the mapping idea. <nigel> .. I think that if we want to do the mapping, that would be a new issue and pull request. <nigel> Cyril: A 4th option is to not have the document level summary at all but inspect the document contents <nigel> .. to see what it contains. <nigel> Nigel: That's true, but... <nigel> Cyril: In the workflow you want an early indication of the potential uses of the document. <nigel> Nigel: So you're arguing against that previous point?! <nigel> Cyril: Yes, I just wanted to note the possibility in case we want to come back to this in the future. <nigel> Nigel: What to do? <nigel> .. Options: <nigel> .. 1. Merge now and open a separate issue and pull request to deal with mapping from script event type to represents <nigel> .. 2. Go round the loop one more time and try to fix this up before merging <nigel> .. 3. Merge now and do nothing about script event type for the time being. <nigel> .. By the way we will need to come back to all the Registry Tables at some point to make sue <nigel> .. they have the right values. All of the entries are Provisional right now. <nigel> s/sue/sure <nigel> .. Any preferences? <nigel> .. My preference is to merge now and then incrementally improve. <nigel> Cyril: We should have an issue that tracks it then. <nigel> Nigel: Do you want to open that then? <nigel> Cyril: Doing it now. <nigel> Matt: Apologies, got to run to another meeting, please prod me if there's any more review needed. Apologies again for not noticing this one. <nigel> Matt leaves <nigel> SUMMARY: Merge pull request, deal with script event type and represents in a separate issue |
Closes #169 and #194 by replacing
workflowType
withrepresents
, which is a comma-separated list of things that the document contents can be considered an alternative for, where each of the values is an entry in a Registry Table.Preview | Diff